MTZ Tractor Talk

Main MTZ Talk => Maintenance - Service & Repair => Topic started by: Haymaker on December 25, 2014, 02:31:51 PM

Title: Hydraulic Cylinder Repair
Post by: Haymaker on December 25, 2014, 02:31:51 PM
Most small MFD tractors have loaders on just like mine. Recently I repaired the cylinders on the loader on my 825. The loader came on the tractor when I got it but the loader itself is much older than the tractor. Probably from the 1970's and has seen a lot of service over the years on more than one tractor.

The cyl. design and seal types may differ from loader to loader but they all work the same way. This hydraulic cylinder uses a seal cup on the pistons which can fail and rip. Then the cylinder will bypass oil internally. Also these cylinders were leaking externally caused by worn rod seals. Some of the seals were damaged by beat up cylinder rods.

The rod seals can be difficult to get into place in the cylinder head bore again. I like to warm them up with a heat gun so they are more flexible.  Always coat seals with oil when assembling it all back together.

(http://www.texashydraulics.com/images/standard-cylinder-diagram.png)

see pics
Title: Re: Hydraulic Cylinder Repair
Post by: imperial1960 on December 25, 2014, 04:10:53 PM
Question where do the missing pieces of the internal seals end up and on my 562 (russian loader) there is a gland lock on it looks like a curled on the gland.How does the lock come out or does it just turn out with the gland? Where did you get your seals from? Thanks Haymaker
Title: Re: Hydraulic Cylinder Repair
Post by: Haymaker on December 25, 2014, 04:26:31 PM
Question where do the missing pieces of the internal seals end up and on my 562 (russian loader) there is a gland lock on it looks like a curled on the gland.How does the lock come out or does it just turn out with the gland? Where did you get your seals from? Thanks Haymaker

Well if you could post a pic of your cylinder style or find one on the net I could tell you. Odds are though if it's like the pics in the post below the retainer that holds it together threads out.  Some are external like mine or the threads are internal like that blue cylinder I posted. Either way they unscrew and if there old and rusted can be a difficult to come apart sometimes.

As for seals, I went to a shop that specializes in fluid seals called Fluid Seal but any company that sells this sort of stuff including say a hydraulic shop  that repairs them can supply seals.  If you figure out the size you can order them online too.  But the easiest would be to just take all the parts you need replaced to a place that handles seals. They'll be able to match them up.

As for damaged pieces of seals they'll eventually end up in your hydraulic tank/filter hopefully.  Fortunately tractors like Belarus and say Fendts etc. have self contained hydraulic systems so if there is a failure it won't contaminate other components in the transmission.  Most tractors use the transmission sump for hydraulics and use THD fluid.  (Trans, Hydraulic, Differential)
Title: Re: Hydraulic Cylinder Repair
Post by: imperial1960 on December 25, 2014, 06:40:54 PM
I will post picture of gland nut soon
Title: Re: Hydraulic Cylinder Repair
Post by: imperial1960 on December 26, 2014, 09:47:53 AM
(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o223/05chop/Mobile%20Uploads/belarus/16782A27-1CB0-48E3-8456-67DB1301BDDC_zpsffz6o80d.jpg) (http://s121.photobucket.com/user/05chop/media/Mobile%20Uploads/belarus/16782A27-1CB0-48E3-8456-67DB1301BDDC_zpsffz6o80d.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Hydraulic Cylinder Repair
Post by: Haymaker on December 26, 2014, 11:46:58 AM
That has external threads like mine on the tube. Its made for a pin type spanner wrench to hook up in that hole there.  But a big 24" pipe wrench should remove it too. 

 As for the other little piece of metal that's bent up there.  From the pic it looks like its used as a thread lock for the flange nut.  Mine had allen head set screws in the flange nut I had to remove.  So see if you can stick a punch in there and bent up the end that is making contact with the threads at bit.  Careful not to break it off as when you put it together you can tap it back down again.

If your intention is to take a cylinder apart it maybe easier to break that flange nut loose while its mounted on the loader. Then once you have the nut turning when you have it on the bench in a vice it won't be an issue to take it all apart.  Note have a pan/pail to catch the oil as the cylinder will be full of oil.  Stroke the cylinder rod and catch the oil from each port.


Title: Re: Hydraulic Cylinder Repair
Post by: imperial1960 on December 26, 2014, 03:10:05 PM
I have the nut loose and the lock pulled out but gland still locks up as I turn the gland.(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o223/05chop/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-12/9C53BD31-A7B6-49B0-A44E-EB3464D48CE4_zpsjato2yd7.jpg) (http://s121.photobucket.com/user/05chop/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-12/9C53BD31-A7B6-49B0-A44E-EB3464D48CE4_zpsjato2yd7.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Hydraulic Cylinder Repair
Post by: Haymaker on December 26, 2014, 05:12:18 PM
Well it should unscrew but they sometimes can be difficult. Try soaking it good with a rust penetrating spray like pB blaster or similar and keep working it back and forth. Sometimes if left outside for years it gets rusted up in there.  Its hard to tell from just pics. but make sure there is no other sort of locking mechanism that's keeping it from unscrewing. 
Title: Re: Hydraulic Cylinder Repair
Post by: imperial1960 on December 27, 2014, 10:59:35 AM
well i have soaked gland in p/b oil the ring lock will not move but i can rotate gland about 1/4 turn then the ring lock must stop the gland fom turning.i welded a nut on vise grips thinking it would break loose with slide hammer even went up and down with ring no luck.looking at parts book it shows a hook at the end of the ring
Title: Re: Hydraulic Cylinder Repair
Post by: Haymaker on December 27, 2014, 12:10:09 PM
I wish I could see this in person!! So is there threads under that collar/ring piece you're trying to turn? Or maybe does it just turn a 1/4 turn and lock in place or something. If you figure the collar is loose and your trying to get the cylinder apart there is an easy way to do that.

If you have a parts diagram of the cylinder post that if you can.
Title: Re: Hydraulic Cylinder Repair
Post by: imperial1960 on December 27, 2014, 07:11:54 PM
Here you go any idea?(http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o223/05chop/null_zpse1ace573.jpg) (http://s121.photobucket.com/user/05chop/media/null_zpse1ace573.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Hydraulic Cylinder Repair
Post by: Haymaker on December 27, 2014, 08:17:43 PM
#22 snap ring....where is that. As it looks like an external snap ring if the pic is correct.?? is that under #20 or something? Is #20 actually threaded on?
Title: Re: Hydraulic Cylinder Repair
Post by: imperial1960 on December 27, 2014, 09:08:50 PM
20 is the gland nut 21 looks like the ring  lock im trying to remove  23 is the tube that looks like its treaded on.
Title: Re: Hydraulic Cylinder Repair
Post by: Haymaker on December 27, 2014, 10:40:51 PM
20 is the gland nut 21 looks like the ring  lock im trying to remove  23 is the tube that looks like its treaded on.

Ok so 20 the gland nut only turns 1/4 turn and comes to a stop? 

Back to the little barb you called that you bent up a bit, what's under it in there?

Where are you seeing this lock ring?

Check your pm too
Title: Re: Hydraulic Cylinder Repair
Post by: imperial1960 on December 28, 2014, 11:07:21 AM
More pictures of the gland nut and lock ring.Yes when I rotate gland nut this ring sticks out of the gland nut then as I rotate the g/n the ring rotates also.I have also tryed this on other g/n on my machine with same results.Number 21 I guess is the ring that stick out of the gland nut im not seeing any threads inside small slot.Thanks for the offer PM (http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o223/05chop/Mobile%20Uploads/belarus/2014-12/E2336702-C03A-4440-9223-714968463049_zpsdsm6y5lb.jpg) (http://s121.photobucket.com/user/05chop/media/Mobile%20Uploads/belarus/2014-12/E2336702-C03A-4440-9223-714968463049_zpsdsm6y5lb.jpg.html)
Title: Re: Hydraulic Cylinder Repair
Post by: Haymaker on December 28, 2014, 11:53:13 AM
Ok ok ... now I see what you have there! Sorry but that's no 'barb' as you 1st called it  part of the gland nut.  All that paint on there it's hard to see look'n on the net, sorry I sent you down the wrong path!  As mentioned some can be a bit different  and doing this by pics is well.... not easy  !


So that's a retaining ring of some sort that I think has to be rotated out of the slot there.  So if you loosen the nut a bit it the ring should stick out a bit more not ??  Then if you grab it with a good vise grips along with turning the nut back to the right will it work it's way out?? You said below the ring moves a bit when you turn the nut which is a good sign.  Then keep doing this always getting a new bite on the ring(as it comes out) slowly twisting it out of there.  You won't be able to turn the nut too much as it will jam against the ring, just little bit at a time so it doesn't bind.  You may not be able to just "pull" it out with not helping it along by turning the gland nut a bit each time at 1st but try tapping on the vice grip with a hammer to rotate it out too.  DON'T break the end off the lock ring what ever you do!  When that comes out the gland nut should come off. Hey can you see the other end of that lock ring as in the parts pic it shows it having 2 ends with loops on it.  Just to be sure its not hooked on something and preventing it from being turned out of there. There is probably a simple method to take this apart,  but like with most things like this the  first time can be painful!!

Does that cylinder tube for sure have threads on it under the gland nut some place?  The parts picture was cut off so I can't see the end of the tube. I suspect the lock ring  rotates out and the nut then turns off....
Title: Re: Hydraulic Cylinder Repair
Post by: imperial1960 on December 29, 2014, 09:54:17 PM
In the picture of the drawing( Number 23 is the tube) it shows what looks like a treaded tube Im thinking the gland nut is treaded along with the tube. I did run a center punch into the curl of the ring retainer then rotated the G/N plus yanked on the retainer with no luck today.What I do not want to do is add a cheater bar to the spanner wrench and then start pulling threads.Im not wanting to buy complete cylinders so Im on hold with this till I get time to call someone.
Title: Re: Hydraulic Cylinder Repair
Post by: Haymaker on December 29, 2014, 10:49:48 PM
In the picture of the drawing( Number 23 is the tube) it shows what looks like a treaded tube Im thinking the gland nut is treaded along with the tube. I did run a center punch into the curl of the ring retainer then rotated the G/N plus yanked on the retainer with no luck today.What I do not want to do is add a cheater bar to the spanner wrench and then start pulling threads.Im not wanting to buy complete cylinders so Im on hold with this till I get time to call someone.

No you don't want to force the issue with the nut until you figure how that lock ring works or comes out. 
Title: Re: Hydraulic Cylinder Repair
Post by: Haymaker on January 13, 2015, 04:22:47 PM
I hit something pretty hard in the snow when I was pushing snow with my "new" Quick Attatch hyd. angle snow blade.  The cast iron end of the cylinder has 2 ears on it that snapped right off!  This is the cylinder which angles the blade  to the left or right. I thought there would be some sort of pressure relief system so this doesn't happen but not on this model.  Thinking I may look into putting that on as I've seen other snow blades like this have that or some use 2 cylinders.
 
Anyway after some checking I found the USA made blade uses a hyd. cylinder made in Saskatchewan Canada.  So I talked to the manufacture of the cylinder and they hooked me up with the end piece for 32 bucks plus shipping.
 
This one comes apart possibly something like your loader cylinders .....  See the pics below. 
 
This one is simple and works pretty slick there is no threads to it.   All you do is lift the ring clip with a screw driver and it rotates  out. You can't just pull on the retaining ring, you have to rotate the whole cast end piece there.  As you do this the ring just comes on out on its own.  You can see the other end of the ring hooks into a hole in the casting there.  This cast end with the broke ears and the end the rod comes are both built the same way that uses the retaining ring system.   Once the ring is rotated out the end piece just slide right out of the tube.
 
 
Title: Re: Hydraulic Cylinder Repair
Post by: imperial1960 on January 26, 2015, 12:11:04 PM
This is good to know I have put my reseal job on hold still cant rotate this ring out.One problem is I have is I live 200m from a decent machine shop.Hdy shop here would not even help me out with hyd hoses said looks to oddball to him.So next month I will go to Denver I might have to buy complete cylinders and hoses.From weather channel looks like east coast will be getting major snow thanks again haymaker
Title: Re: Hydraulic Cylinder Repair
Post by: damengineer on March 19, 2015, 12:11:49 AM
I know this is an older thread, but I think I might have something relevant.  I get most of my hydraulic repair parts from   http://www.baileynet.com/ (http://www.baileynet.com/)    I have a hose crimp machine and make my own hoses.   Also when I can use them, http://www.surpluscenter.com/ (http://www.surpluscenter.com/)  has surplus hoses for less than I can buy the hose and fittings.  They also have some adaptable cylinders and other hydraulic parts.   We have a company in OKC called Sealco   http://www.sealcompany.com/ (http://www.sealcompany.com/)  where I get most of my sealing rings to repair my hydraulic cylinders.  I have bought a lot of the special spanners on Ebay to remove the end to rebuild them.    I just hate to pay a machine shop to do what I can do myself.   

I rebuilt the crowd cylinder on my 10B Caterpillar Excavator last summer.  I had to make a wrench to fit the nut on the end of the cylinder rod.  I drew it out on Autocad then printed the nut outline out on paper and used that for a pattern to cut the hex wrench from...  I cut it from 1/2 plate then welded it to a 6 ft piece of 2 7/8 drill stem, and then stuck an old railroad pry bar in the eye end of the rod and with everything on blocks, I used my front loader bucket to push the wrench and beak the nut loose.  Same way I tightened it.  I suppose that it was torqued to spec!???  I bent my railroad bar when I tightened it.  Really hated that, It was over 125 years old......

Just my $0.02
Title: Re: Hydraulic Cylinder Repair
Post by: Haymaker on March 20, 2015, 06:58:21 PM
Ran across this video of taking apart a Russian hyd. cyl.


Title: Re: Hydraulic Cylinder Repair
Post by: imperial1960 on March 20, 2015, 07:06:51 PM
Smaller cylinder than my 562!This has to be the way my cylinder comes apart (thanks for posting video) only after I heated up gland nut plus long wrench and cheater bar it didnt come out.I have been soaking the gland nut with pb blaster each day and will try this again this summer.