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Author Topic: MTZ 1220 not cranking, now clutch shudder.  (Read 1591 times)

damengineer

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Re: MTZ 1220 not cranking, now clutch shudder.
« Reply #6 on: March 19, 2018, 10:40:07 PM »
Haymaker:
The oil clutch I was referring to is one that runs in oil, but not a reversing clutch as my TS110 NH witht he left hand reverser you referred to.   My old D6 Cat has an oil clutch and is a standard type transmission.  The 930 Case tractors had clutches that ran in oil.  The linings were able to run in oil without any problems, and the pressure plate springs were stout enough to hold with the disk running in oil.    Case had both foot clutches and hand clutches.  You can slip them all day long and only have to adjust maybe once every 2 years or so..
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Haymaker

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Re: MTZ 1220 not cranking, now clutch shudder.
« Reply #5 on: February 19, 2018, 11:14:21 PM »
Just an update to the forum.  My 1220.4 is now working fine.  The pilot bearing was missing from the flywheel.   It appears the flywheel had been sent to a machine shop for resurfacing, which I doubt it needed, ( just based on my 50 years of experience ) the normal procedure is to remove the pilot bearing whether it is turned on a lathe, or surface ground to preovent grindings in the bearing.   The bearing was not replaced in the flywheel, and obviously the earlier mechanic was having a bad day and didn't notice the pilot bearing wasn't installed.  Ray at MTZ parts quickly sent me a bearing, and also a transmission input shaft so we could align the twin disk clutch.  Sometimes it is a little tricky to get the splines on both clutch disks aligned in addition to radial alignment. 

I want to thank Ray Boulanger in parts, Ian Higginson in service, and Arie Prilikin sales for their quick response on this.  Arie please pass on my thanks.  I got this tractor repaired at a dealer about 100 miles away in less time than a John Deere or a Case IH would have been waiting in line at the dealership. 

The clutch works fine, Greg Hill at Greg's Farm Service in Cordell Oklahoma, performed the work at a very reasonable charge.  In fact, I left my 8345 for him to install a clutch when I picked up the 1220.  He will also get my 4010 Deere and my 7030 Allis for clutch repair.   I have a splitting stand, but with my medical issues, and time constraints,  I can spend a day driving a truck and trailer 200 miles RT to deliver the tractor easier than I can split it. 

I am now installing the loader back on the 1220.  It is the MTZ loader and built out of 1in and 1 1/4 thick plate steel.  It looks like it will handle 3 times what the load rating is.  Even though it is very heavy, I am able to install it by myself which is a great help since I do not have any additional help available.  My only caveat on the loader is the a ttaching bolts.  The loader uses a 1/2 inch shim between the tractor frame and the loader frame.  The bolts must be for the loader to mount without the shim.  I purchased bolts locally that were 1/2 inch longer.   The bolts were M16 x 50, I found M16 x 70 a little longer than I wanted, but they use a flat washer and lock washerunder the head.  The flat washers furnished with the loader are smaller OD and lighter gauge than I liked, some of the bolt holes are slots.  I used 5/8 SAE grade 8 lock washers and bolts, and they worked fine.  I had no issues with the longer bolts bottoming out, and in a couple of spots a nut is used on the back side of the frame, the longer bolts allowed me to use a flat washer on the back also to prevent breaking out the frame from fatigue.    This loader has at least 3 times the attaching bolts that my Koyker or my Woods loaders have.   I don't think there will be any problems with bolts breaking or coming loose. 

My recommendation to the factory regarding the clutch would be to look into using a wet clutch instead of the dual plate.  The dual plate requires both disks to engage at the same time, or the power is first transmitted to one disk creating most wear on that one.  An oil clutch will last nearly forever.  I have a 930 Case and a D6 Caterpillar with wet clutches,  and it can slip all day long when working with a loader, and has been adjus ted once in 20 years.  I also bought it used from the original owner, so I have no idea if it was adjusted earlier.   I do know it is the original clutch.  The housing on the 1220 could be easily converted to a wet clutch. 

So far I am very satisfied with the tractor and loader.  I have not completed the loader installation as other farm chores took priority yesterday, then during the night the weather changed to 25deg with 35mph N wind.  You have to love Oklahoma to stay here.....


Regarding wet clutch on loader tractors.  Yes for sure tractors with the left hand operated hyd. reverser (wet clutch pack) system is much better durability and user friendly for sure. But they do fail if worked daily like in a feed lot /dairy farm doing loader work chores daily.  I know on say the older  MX Case's and MTX McCormick's they do wear out as I know guys who have them. IF work load is spread out more like lots of field work then that's different.  Construction equipment like crawler tractors that go back and forth all day use torque converters etc .

I have a Case 970 and my C1 clutch failed (the one that applies when you release the clutch pedal). The fiction disc was good but it broke out where it slides onto the sun gear.  On my Case 2090 the C1 clutch just failed and it doesn't even have a loader on it with about 4500hrs on it.   

Dry clutches take abuse doing loader work constantly also depeneds on the operator too.  Fellow i know worked at NH years ago and said they'd have NH dry cltuch chore tractors come in with the farmers complaining  only getting  400hrs. out of a clutch.  He said it was partly design and operator (hired hands) abuse  in those cases.  Come to think of it i think he mentioned back then they were gonna try a Kevlar friction disc or something better then the standard organic oem style they came with at the time.   Now a days pretty much they are all wet clutchs with the left hand reverser.

Sure MTZ could produce a basic wet clutch set up or even one with a forward/ Reverse wet clutch operated shuttle shift..  IT would certainly make them more attractive for heavy loader use applications with the shuttle shift  But of course there would be a cost and the majority of their sales are for the lower cost basic machines like what they have.  IF they offered that 1220 with the left hand fwd/rev lever and say a 16 speed partial ps transmission( 4 ps/4 ranges) it would be ideal. 

The Belarus/ MTZ dry clutches are pretty darn cheap less.... than my kids  little VW car!! 
« Last Edit: February 19, 2018, 11:22:17 PM by Haymaker »
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Thomusnut

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Re: MTZ 1220 not cranking, now clutch shudder.
« Reply #4 on: February 19, 2018, 02:22:11 AM »
I am like you I want to know how I need to fix it.

damengineer

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Re: MTZ 1220 not cranking, now clutch shudder.
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2018, 09:40:26 AM »
Just an update to the forum.  My 1220.4 is now working fine.  The pilot bearing was missing from the flywheel.   It appears the flywheel had been sent to a machine shop for resurfacing, which I doubt it needed, ( just based on my 50 years of experience ) the normal procedure is to remove the pilot bearing whether it is turned on a lathe, or surface ground to preovent grindings in the bearing.   The bearing was not replaced in the flywheel, and obviously the earlier mechanic was having a bad day and didn't notice the pilot bearing wasn't installed.  Ray at MTZ parts quickly sent me a bearing, and also a transmission input shaft so we could align the twin disk clutch.  Sometimes it is a little tricky to get the splines on both clutch disks aligned in addition to radial alignment. 

I want to thank Ray Boulanger in parts, Ian Higginson in service, and Arie Prilikin sales for their quick response on this.  Arie please pass on my thanks.  I got this tractor repaired at a dealer about 100 miles away in less time than a John Deere or a Case IH would have been waiting in line at the dealership. 

The clutch works fine, Greg Hill at Greg's Farm Service in Cordell Oklahoma, performed the work at a very reasonable charge.  In fact, I left my 8345 for him to install a clutch when I picked up the 1220.  He will also get my 4010 Deere and my 7030 Allis for clutch repair.   I have a splitting stand, but with my medical issues, and time constraints,  I can spend a day driving a truck and trailer 200 miles RT to deliver the tractor easier than I can split it. 

I am now installing the loader back on the 1220.  It is the MTZ loader and built out of 1in and 1 1/4 thick plate steel.  It looks like it will handle 3 times what the load rating is.  Even though it is very heavy, I am able to install it by myself which is a great help since I do not have any additional help available.  My only caveat on the loader is the a ttaching bolts.  The loader uses a 1/2 inch shim between the tractor frame and the loader frame.  The bolts must be for the loader to mount without the shim.  I purchased bolts locally that were 1/2 inch longer.   The bolts were M16 x 50, I found M16 x 70 a little longer than I wanted, but they use a flat washer and lock washerunder the head.  The flat washers furnished with the loader are smaller OD and lighter gauge than I liked, some of the bolt holes are slots.  I used 5/8 SAE grade 8 lock washers and bolts, and they worked fine.  I had no issues with the longer bolts bottoming out, and in a couple of spots a nut is used on the back side of the frame, the longer bolts allowed me to use a flat washer on the back also to prevent breaking out the frame from fatigue.    This loader has at least 3 times the attaching bolts that my Koyker or my Woods loaders have.   I don't think there will be any problems with bolts breaking or coming loose. 

My recommendation to the factory regarding the clutch would be to look into using a wet clutch instead of the dual plate.  The dual plate requires both disks to engage at the same time, or the power is first transmitted to one disk creating most wear on that one.  An oil clutch will last nearly forever.  I have a 930 Case and a D6 Caterpillar with wet clutches,  and it can slip all day long when working with a loader, and has been adjus ted once in 20 years.  I also bought it used from the original owner, so I have no idea if it was adjusted earlier.   I do know it is the original clutch.  The housing on the 1220 could be easily converted to a wet clutch. 

So far I am very satisfied with the tractor and loader.  I have not completed the loader installation as other farm chores took priority yesterday, then during the night the weather changed to 25deg with 35mph N wind.  You have to love Oklahoma to stay here.....
  • MTZ 1220 w/ Kr-34 loader, Belarus 8345 w/ Koyker loader, Belarus 825 w/ Memo loader, White 2-105, Case 1270,
If your not leading the pack, the view is always the same!!

arie515

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Re: MTZ 1220 not cranking, now clutch shudder.
« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2018, 12:33:00 PM »
Hi damengineer.
Thank you for the patience getting the machine to work.
It will be interesting to see your feedback on operating the tractor after you had a chance to start using it.


Yours,
Arie

damengineer

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MTZ 1220 not cranking, now clutch shudder.
« Reply #1 on: January 21, 2018, 08:47:45 PM »
I replied to my earlier post about the no cranking issue.  I knew it was something simple.  Just had to get to a peson who had one of the tractrors in front of him...   Ian at Higginson in Canada knows these tractors very well.  I had a bad vibration/grinding when the clutch pedal was pushed just past release or held released for more than 5 seconds.  It would even pull the tractor enough that the brakes would have to be engaged.  I checked the dual  plate clutch for adjustment then held the pedal down and pushed up with a screwdriver on the rear disk.  Both disks moved upward nearly 1/4in!!  This is a very low hour 2 yr old tractor.  Considering the time it robably took coming across the pond and the lack of use, it may have been moisture, or when the engine was mounted into the dual clutch, it may have been forced into the pilot bearing.  If I had my shop cleaned out and had an extra hand, I would do it myself.   Arie & Ian have been great to work with, and there was no disagreement about it needing to be split.  These guys work like dealers did in the old days when a handshake was a contract.   
  • MTZ 1220 w/ Kr-34 loader, Belarus 8345 w/ Koyker loader, Belarus 825 w/ Memo loader, White 2-105, Case 1270,
If your not leading the pack, the view is always the same!!