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Author Topic: 8345 - No Electrical Power  (Read 11878 times)

arie515

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Re: 8345 - No Electrical Power
« Reply #20 on: August 12, 2016, 12:17:40 PM »
I am sorry I was not available for a while to help monitor the forum.  Thanks to Haymaker. 
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damengineer

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Re: 8345 - No Electrical Power
« Reply #19 on: August 12, 2016, 01:20:03 AM »
Glad you got it fixed.   I had issues with my 8345 when trying to get he A/C working and found that the A/c power came from the Alternator output wire.  ???????   We finally put a switch in the line to the compressor and just turn that on when A/C is needed.    However could not have a/C and horn working....??? Go figure.   If I ever have problems again and some time I will use a one wire Delco alternator wih a 24V regulator and rewire the entire tractor.   I may not have all the idiot lights on the top of the dash, but I will bet that I can trace out the circuit I need the next time.   I am sorry I was not available for a while to help monitor the forum.  Thanks to Haymaker. 
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Haymaker

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Re: 8345 - No Electrical Power - Update-Fixed
« Reply #18 on: July 01, 2016, 02:28:47 PM »
I would like to thank Haymaker and all for their input. The remaining parts/relays have been received and installed and the electrics are now 100% functional(well except for the horn-I'll deal w/that later). This has been quite the experience - with the amount of damage done by the excessive alternator voltage output. I would have thought that with the number of relays, fuses and redundant wiring, the extent of damage should have been limited or completely avoided. Guess now it's a safe time to install the new stereo radio and get back to normal(?))!! Maybe I'll upgrade and bring this thing into the 20th century w/an 8track player!! Thanks. B.
Yes I was surprised too I thought you would have  just blown that 50 amp fuse and or cooked a battery. As typically that European wiring as you said uses so many relays and fuses to protect the circuits.  Glad you got it going again without too much grief.  That Alternator must have really been  kick'n out the amps!!
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BinVa

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Re: 8345 - No Electrical Power - Update-Fixed
« Reply #17 on: July 01, 2016, 11:17:40 AM »
 I would like to thank Haymaker and all for their input. The remaining parts/relays have been received and installed and the electrics are now 100% functional(well except for the horn-I'll deal w/that later). This has been quite the experience - with the amount of damage done by the excessive alternator voltage output. I would have thought that with the number of relays, fuses and redundant wiring, the extent of damage should have been limited or completely avoided. Guess now it's a safe time to install the new stereo radio and get back to normal(?))!! Maybe I'll upgrade and bring this thing into the 20th century w/an 8track player!! Thanks. B. 
« Last Edit: July 01, 2016, 11:19:46 AM by BinVa »
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Haymaker

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Re: 8345 - No Electrical Power
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2016, 02:13:49 PM »
Yeah and its real bad up here ordering  from the US with duty on stuff at times. If your in no rush they can just mail that relay to you for little cost vs ups or something.

If it makes you feel better .... heater/fan/ac  controls a one piece sealed unit on a Landini tractor I forget the model now  about  a 100hp and 6-7 years old was $2200!!! :o   While back when I was looking at them I asked the dealer how parts were and he said alright except that darn heater control unit.  He said that was ridiculous and it was a hard phone  call to the customer to let him know lol!
« Last Edit: June 23, 2016, 02:18:30 PM by Haymaker »
  • Tractors- '93 Belarus 825 with loader and others...

BinVa

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Re: 8345 - No Electrical Power
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2016, 12:55:53 PM »
I can cross the fan relay over to Bosch/euro auto - but not having any luck w/the turn signal relay. Guess I'll have to order online. Just a PITA sometimes to order small parts, the S&H costs more than the parts themselves. My closest dealer is now over 100mi away. B.
  • 8345 w/2846QT bushhog loader
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Haymaker

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Re: 8345 - No Electrical Power
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2016, 12:26:04 PM »
Mtz will have them or online belarus parts places.  But what does the spade terminals look like I can't remember.  They are probably your standard typical relay.   Look at the spade terminals they probably have the little numbers by them and  see if it looks the same. If not you'll have to order them. This below is your typical bosch relay but there are different models for different things.  This is a common auto type you can find anywhere in several brands.
« Last Edit: June 23, 2016, 12:36:10 PM by Haymaker »
  • Tractors- '93 Belarus 825 with loader and others...

BinVa

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Re: 8345 - No Electrical Power
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2016, 09:03:46 AM »
Haymaker - Thanks again - forgot about the relays on the side of the dash. The fan relay(#90.3747) is bad - also what I believe is the turn signal relay(#8586.6/0031) is also fried inside. Do you know if these can be sourced locally?  B.
  • 8345 w/2846QT bushhog loader
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Haymaker

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Re: 8345 - No Electrical Power
« Reply #12 on: June 22, 2016, 01:41:24 PM »
Haymaker can you tell us more about the Delco install wiring install?Thinking of doing this to my 562.
Yeah I will when I have more time maybe later in the week.   I was gonna make a little "how too" video but that ... takes me a while lol!    But basically you need to fabricate a bracket, get a small case delco altenator and hook it up.  Wiring wise I'd have to look at mine again as I just didn't "hook it in".  There is more than one way to do it I guess you could say.  I made it a bit more complicated ( I didn't  really need to) so it worked like the old factory one in that there was no draw from the alt. when the engine stopped with the key on.  If you want it to work like a simple old chevy car/Case tractor etc. then that wouldn't be much to do but there would be current draw to the alt. when the key was left on which really isn't a big deal as who leaves the key on anyway!   Also I put a little red idiot light in the dash so that once engine starts and the alt. started charging the light goes out just like on an car with this sort of altenator charging system.  Light stays on and you know its not charging.  Works good, I haven't had a bit of issues with it and the Alternator I used I think was a used one up I picked up at a auto wreckers years back for another project.  New they are  cheap as they made a zillion of them.
 If you don't mind doing this sort of thing and have the time its not hard to do.  But if you're  not into tinkering on stuff  its best to just order a new one from MTZ/Belaurs as i don't think thier too expensive either. 
« Last Edit: June 22, 2016, 05:21:26 PM by Haymaker »
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imperial1960

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Re: 8345 - No Electrical Power
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2016, 12:52:05 PM »
Haymaker can you tell us more about the Delco install wiring install?Thinking of doing this to my 562.
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Haymaker

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Re: 8345 - No Electrical Power
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2016, 09:51:20 AM »
I believe the 825 and yours are very similar.  It's not so much that they have a complicated wiring system is that the wiring diagrams and info on them is not great making it worse then they are!!!!  Just your Typical European wiring and yes it's a bit different than stuff in North America.  I know years back when I worked in an auto shop guys used to hate working on older cars from Europe with electrical issues for the exact same reasons. 

Personally I'd keep it original if possible. Unless for course you find a mess of melted wires.  See if you can locate the bank of relays and see if they click on. On mine so far .... so good no electrical issues.  Other than  the altenator going 15 years ago.   I stuck a Delco one on that I had sitting in the shop.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2016, 09:57:43 AM by Haymaker »
  • Tractors- '93 Belarus 825 with loader and others...

BinVa

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Re: 8345 - No Electrical Power
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2016, 08:12:49 AM »
Haymaker, I must say the 825 has a far simpler electrical system. The wire coding(colors) of the 8345 makes absolutely no sense to try and follow. The next place to tear into is the dash wires and loom. As you say I think there is a relay or burned wire somewhere, since some of the remaining issues seem related. This may be a good time to make some changes to the wiring. I was trying to keep it as original as possible - but I think it's time to move it out of the dark ages. I appreciate your input. B.
  • 8345 w/2846QT bushhog loader
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Haymaker

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Re: 8345 - No Electrical Power
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2016, 12:50:27 AM »
Good to hear you got it working an you were able to just replace the regulator instead of the whole alternator. The voltages you got now look good the way it should be.

Regarding the -Turn signals, Hazard flashers(button illuminates) (flasher unit replaced)have no power at light fixtures or dash indicators, fuel gauge, and cab fan motors(no power at switch- fuses ok), horn.    I can't remember off hand how that circuit works i'd have to look at a wiring diagram. But on my old 825 on the left side of the dash under a cover there is several relays one which runs the fans.  Must be still a fuse/wire/relay at fault that supplies power to the items you listed.  These are just your standard type of relay. I included a pic of a basic auto/tractor relay system if this helps.   Take a test light and check to insure you do have power/ground  with key on and engine running to these relays and that they are working.  Then go from there if you feel its a relay just swap one with another and see if that fixes it.  Let me know what you find.
 
« Last Edit: June 22, 2016, 01:57:51 AM by Haymaker »
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BinVa

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Re: 8345 - No Electrical Power
« Reply #7 on: June 21, 2016, 09:27:35 AM »
Looks like the voltage regulator was the culprit.
Voltage w/all electrics off 13.80v @ idle  -  13.55v w/headlights on @ idle
w/all electrics off 14.45 @ 1800rpm  -  14.64v w/headlights on @ 1800rpm
This looks a little better to me. Is this more in range?
Now I need to figure out the extent of the overcharge damage.
So far what's working;
I have all the running/work/stop/tail lights working(all bulbs blown/replaced), dome light, window washer and wipers, dash lights, idiot lights(w/test switch), temperature, oil pressure and voltage gauges, starts and runs fine.
What's not working;
Turn signals, Hazard flashers(button illuminates) (flasher unit replaced)have no power at light fixtures or dash indicators, fuel gauge, and cab fan motors(no power at switch- fuses ok), horn.
Parts replaced;
Voltage regulator - PV50 Charging circuit fuse - multi function switch(@steering column)- misc. light bulbs - fan switch. 
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Belarus 8345 and Several Green Tractors

BinVa

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Re: 8345 - No Electrical Power
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2016, 09:51:49 AM »
Have not completely checked the lighting due to the overcharging issue, and only using battery(12v) voltage as needed. At some point all the light bulbs which had been turned on have blown, but fuses(except PV50) seem ok. The alternator voltage(high overcharge) is present at the batteries and PV50 fuse(in dash), w/alternator connected and motor running,so I have limited testing until I get the excessive(charging) voltage under control. At this point I have  the alternator disconnected - and tested with only battery voltage which tests out the same at the batteries, light sockets and fuses. I should have the new voltage regulator early next week for installation and will see if that cures the over-charge issue.   
  • 8345 w/2846QT bushhog loader
Belarus 8345 and Several Green Tractors