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Author Topic: Starter Voltage- How to Determine?  (Read 24065 times)

imperial1960

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Re: Starter Voltage- How to Determine?
« Reply #30 on: March 15, 2016, 06:18:32 PM »
Good to hear you got it fixed any pictures?
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Prince of Bales

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Re: Starter Voltage- How to Determine?
« Reply #29 on: February 24, 2016, 11:23:45 PM »
PROBLEM SOLVED- I confirmed by its part number that I do have a 12V starter.  I finally got around to removing the starter from the tractor and checked it with a direct connection to 12V.  The starter motor turned slowly, gradually building a little speed, and drawing a lot of current (the starter and the cable I was supplying it with quickly became hot).  I disassembled the starter and found everything in what seemed to be surprisingly good condition, except for the bushing in the brush-holder end.  It was really loose and I suspected that it was allowing the armature to drag.  I had a bit of a difficult time finding a replacement bushing.  I replaced it, cleaned up the parts and reassembled the starter.  This time when I supplied it with power, it spun significantly faster.  I reinstalled it onto the tractor and it turns the engine like it should.  I am really pleased that my problem was solved with a $2.00 bushing.
If you have a starter that turns very slowly and is drawing a lot of current, I would recommend checking this bushing.  You could probably check it without removing the starter from the tractor by removing the end cover and seeing if you can move the armature shaft within the bushing.  Mine had significant movement.  I was not able to find the actual replacement part (part number FR7.684.362 or ST2123708402), but found one that worked fine.  Its dimensions are OD: 17.9mm, ID: 13.5mm, length: 18mm.  Supposedly, the same bushing is used in both ends.
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Prince of Bales

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Re: Starter Voltage- How to Determine?
« Reply #28 on: April 01, 2015, 10:52:26 PM »
No, I just haven't done anything with it yet.  I have had to attend to other things with higher priorities.  I will post an update when I have some news.
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imperial1960

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Re: Starter Voltage- How to Determine?
« Reply #27 on: March 31, 2015, 01:34:56 PM »
[/color]
Prince of Bales   DID we scare you off? How about an update?[/size]
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imperial1960

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Re: Starter Voltage- How to Determine?
« Reply #26 on: March 19, 2015, 06:56:49 PM »
Great info here thanks
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damengineer

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Re: Starter Voltage- How to Determine?
« Reply #25 on: March 18, 2015, 11:40:29 PM »
I will list some links here that can explain the one wire Delco alternator better than I can type.  DB electrical has some information on a universal bracket also.   My 8345 has the one wire Delco alternator installed.  I have also converted a lot of 12Volt hard starting high compression tractors to 24Volt start 12volt Run using the original 12Volt starter.  It will not damage the starter if you do not crank it for long periods of time.  I still used 12V to power the solenoid. 

On that same note I have changed a lot of tractors over from 6v to 12v using the one wire delco alternator and still using the 6 volt starter.  The old Clark forkllifts were notorious for not wanting to start cold.  The old L series IHC trucks were a real pain to start when hot with the old 6 volt system.  I converted those back in the early 60's before we had alternators.  We would change the field coils on the generator to 12V and change the regulator.  A lot of times we just used the 6v coil and installed a resistor in line with the coil.    Sorry, I digress...  The links are below:

http://bob_skelly.home.comcast.net/~bob_skelly/alternator_conversion/wiring_alternator1.html

&

https://www.google.com/search?q=one+wire+delco+alternator+wiring+diagram&biw=1832&bih=938&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=ZEEKVbXMMozEggS9koGYDQ&ved=0CB0QsAQ&dpr=1

You might have to change the regulator inside the alternator to get 24 volts.  I have done this and also rebuild my own starters and alternators.  There is also a 6Volt regulator available.  I get a lot of parts from National Auto Supply in Shelbyville Indiana. 

  • MTZ 1220 w/ Kr-34 loader, Belarus 8345 w/ Koyker loader, Belarus 825 w/ Memo loader, White 2-105, Case 1270,
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imperial1960

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Re: Starter Voltage- How to Determine?
« Reply #24 on: March 17, 2015, 12:49:01 PM »
Db electrical shows belarus part numbers stamped on starter case in 24 volt and 12 volt series starters
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imperial1960

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Re: Starter Voltage- How to Determine?
« Reply #23 on: March 17, 2015, 11:05:07 AM »
Damengineer Looking at your link DB Electrical it shows all 562 with 12volt starters Prince of bales doesnt know if his action bought 562 is 24volt or12 volt starter system? The 800 series is a different engine (more HP Higher and compression ratio) than the 562 which Prince of bales has. Most starter shops could tell if its 24-or 12volt system from looking inside starter.All of know there is a miss match of batterys Prince of bales in using from his posted pictures one small one large battery plus questionable cables.My previous posts I said most all of the 562 series in my area are 12volt system using two 6 volt batterys but maybe Prince of bales 562 could be a cold weather 24volt system IDK. Also can you explain to us about the one wire delco alternators that people are converting from Belarus alt to a delco with pictures and what was involed in the changing out of the two alternators? Thanks for the reply
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damengineer

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Re: Starter Voltage- How to Determine?
« Reply #22 on: March 17, 2015, 01:32:52 AM »
After looking at your earlier posts, and the picture of the cables on your tractor, I would get some 1/0 welding cable, copper lugs, and marine type battery terminals and make my cables.  If you go with Group 31 batteries with stud type posts, you will not need the marine type terminals.  You can get a hammer type crimper on Ebay or at NAPA.  Ebay is cheaper.  Harbor Freight also has some hydraulic crimpers.  I have both.  That old braided ground cable needs to be thrown in your copper scrap pile.  My earlier post still stands, but do yourself a favor and get some Group 31 batteries.  I would bet you have a 24V starter. 
  • MTZ 1220 w/ Kr-34 loader, Belarus 8345 w/ Koyker loader, Belarus 825 w/ Memo loader, White 2-105, Case 1270,
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damengineer

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Re: Starter Voltage- How to Determine?
« Reply #21 on: March 17, 2015, 01:05:45 AM »
After owning 2 of these tractors for 5 years, I would stay with the 24V starter.   If you can get the series/parallel switch for $100, it would be much less than a new or rebuilt starter.   The starter solenoid is 12V on my 825 & 8345, but the starter is 24V.   If you would connect the batteries in series, then install a 24V alternator, you could run the gauges & other electrical items on one battery for 12V and then the starter will have the other for the 24V...  If you tractor has been converted to a one wire delco alternator, as many have been, then only the regulator would need to be changed.  If you can find an alternator repair shop, they can do this for you.   I order a lot of starters & alternators from DB electrical.  They have a web site as well as being on Ebay.  You could give them a call and see what they recommend.  Try this link.

https://www.dbelectrical.com/p-5812-new-alternator-10si-delco-1-wire-hookup-40-amp-24-volt-7129.aspx  for the alternator

https://www.dbelectrical.com/c-3010-belarus.aspx  If you want a starter

Hope this helps
  • MTZ 1220 w/ Kr-34 loader, Belarus 8345 w/ Koyker loader, Belarus 825 w/ Memo loader, White 2-105, Case 1270,
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imperial1960

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Re: Starter Voltage- How to Determine?
« Reply #20 on: March 14, 2015, 11:40:44 AM »
Prince of bales Save yourself some pain and have your starter checked by a shop or at least check the brush set inside starter!Keep all of us updated too.
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Prince of Bales

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Re: Starter Voltage- How to Determine?
« Reply #19 on: March 13, 2015, 10:02:12 PM »
Thanks, this gives a good point of reference.  This one cranks a lot stronger than mine does right now.  I will see what improvement I can make on mine.
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Haymaker

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Re: Belarus 562 starter cranking over
« Reply #18 on: March 12, 2015, 02:20:30 PM »
Here is a little short video of Imperial1960's  Belarus 562 starting using glow plugs at 48F. 1st attempt he has the throttle pulled back to let it just crank some without starting.


Its a small 900KB video that should down load and play.
« Last Edit: March 13, 2015, 01:38:12 AM by Haymaker »
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Haymaker

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Re: Starter Voltage- How to Determine?
« Reply #17 on: March 11, 2015, 03:07:57 AM »
As for Glow plugs there is the dealer i mentioned below, the place you got your manual from or take your chances on  eBay if you like they list 4 for 34.95.  There is a misconception with these machines that parts are unavailable which in reality is far from the case especially these days with online   shopping.  In North America they may not be that common but world wide I believe I read that the MTZ plant pumped out 1.4 million of the MTZ 8x series (aka Belaurs 5xx) of tractor from '74 to '95!!  So just like any popular machine many companies started making parts for them.

For the mechanically inclined they are a easy tractor to work on, require no special tools  and were built for a market where you don't always have a dealer down the road to service it.  Washable oil filter, washable air filter, common wear parts like say the clutch, brakes, or the pto bands (pto clutch) can be serviced easily and can be relined (rebuilt) locally at say your local brake/clutch shop.Or Parts can be had from several sources as mentioned above.

Cons. - Crude, noisy cab, plain old straight cut gear trans, leaks , and rather odd looking!  But they are cheap hp that do work and get the job done just like any other brand.
« Last Edit: March 11, 2015, 01:15:27 PM by Haymaker »
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Prince of Bales

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Re: Starter Voltage- How to Determine?
« Reply #16 on: March 10, 2015, 10:52:49 PM »
The batteries have been fully charged and load tested and check out OK.  The cables and connections are probably not.  I will move on to addressing and checking these and the other items mentioned below since maybe the original question is answered.  It seems that the consensus is that this tractor has a 12V starter, so I will go with that.  Up until that determination was made, there was little point in chasing the other things (I would never get satisfactory performance trying to drive a 24V starter with 12V, even with perfect connections).  With that question assumed now to be out of the way, I will move on from there.  I will let you know what I come up with so that it may help someone else in a similar situation in the future.
As for the glow plugs, I think there is a problem there.  I will follow that up and start a new post if needed, to avoid this one going too far off-topic (so others can maybe find the glow plug discussion later).  In the meantime though, do you know a good source for replacement glow plugs?  Those I have found so far seem a bit expensive, but then again I am not sure what to expect yet in terms of parts pricing for these tractors.
Again, thanks so far.  It is great to have others out there to learn from and discuss with.

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